Curse

Mordakai · Jun 12, 2009, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Guild Wars fanboyism is ungood, mmkay.

Why? Why is loving a game a bad thing?

Just because someone is enjoying a game, be it WoW or Guild Wars (or Basketball or Football for that matter), doesn't make them an idiot.

These are hobbies. Last time I checked, you were allowed to enjoy hobbies, and share your interests with others on fan websites!

Not sure how being a fan of Guild Wars on a Guild Wars site became a bad thing!

Bryant Again · Jun 12, 2009, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Being a "fan" is totally fine until you start to overlook the problems because you love it so much. He put "GW" specific fans in there to attempt to stir some flames.

Gli · Jun 12, 2009, 06:09 AM // 06:09

But what makes anyone the benchmark for what are considered problems in the game? Maybe some people don't have any problems. I know I don't think most of the often mentioned problems on this site are problematic to me.

CasterOfShame27 · Jun 12, 2009, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Why? Why is loving a game a bad thing?

Just because someone is enjoying a game, be it WoW or Guild Wars (or Basketball or Football for that matter), doesn't make them an idiot.

These are hobbies. Last time I checked, you were allowed to enjoy hobbies, and share your interests with others on fan websites!

Not sure how being a fan of Guild Wars on a Guild Wars site became a bad thing!

Mordakai, you took the words right out of my mouth.

I could care less about what bad things this game has to offer - I just care about what's good in it (which is most of it)! Apparently my earlier post was oh-so terrible, so excuse me for expressing the fact that people should stop playing a game if they always complain about it. But whatever, I like Guild Wars for what it is, and that's good enough for me.

Bryant Again · Jun 12, 2009, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

But what makes anyone the benchmark for what are considered problems in the game?

That's what forums are for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CasterOfShame27

*snip* Apparently my earlier post was oh-so terrible, so excuse me for expressing the fact that people should stop playing a game if they always complain about it.

He was more pointing out that you said "who the heck cares" regarding skill updates, and that ignoring unbalanced skills/builds is not the path to a healthy game and community.

Gli · Jun 12, 2009, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

That's what forums are for.

Right, and it never ceases to amaze me how everyone on these forums is always completely unanimous about what does and what doesn't amount to a problem.

No, really. The opinions of a couple of hundreds of random players do not make a benchmark.

Bryant Again · Jun 12, 2009, 06:49 AM // 06:49

We're not talking about opinions, we're talking about arguments.

It's one thing to say "I like Ursan". It's another to say "I like Ursan because...".

Gli · Jun 12, 2009, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Maybe you are talking arguments, I'm not. I'm asking for a benchmark to measure problems by.

Another person's arguments are irrelevant to my gaming experience. You can argue something to be a problem all you want, but if I have no problem in that area, you can't call on me saying I'm ignoring problems. For instance, I've never ever ever considered a lack of skill updates to be a problem.

Calling people 'fanboys' because they ignore your problems, that's hubris.

Bryant Again · Jun 12, 2009, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Maybe you are talking arguments, I'm not. I'm asking for a benchmark to measure problems by.

There isn't one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Calling people 'fanboys' because they ignore your problems, that's hubris.

There's a difference between saying "I don't care about the problem" and "this isn't a problem". I was more referring to the latter view.

Gli · Jun 12, 2009, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

There's a difference between saying "I don't care about the problem" and "this isn't a problem". I was more referring to the latter view.

The latter view is completely valid. No one has any kind of obligation to acknowledge what you perceive as a problem to actually be a problem if they don't see it as a problem themselves.

Bryant Again · Jun 12, 2009, 07:53 AM // 07:53

And at which point the other posters would ask why the player in question did not see it as a problem, and then that player would either provide a good opposing view why it isn't a problem, acknowledge that it *is* a problem, or state that it doesn't affect them i.e. "idc".

Gli · Jun 12, 2009, 08:03 AM // 08:03

That scenario assumes that what the one player perceives as a problem is actually a problem with the game and not just something going against someone's personal desires for the game. Which a great many 'problems' discussed on these forums actually are, and people are called 'fanboys' for disagreeing.

Bryant Again · Jun 12, 2009, 08:16 AM // 08:16

I don't really see what we're arguing about now, honestly.

I could comment on how to define the line between a problem with the game or a problem with someone's desires, but I don't really see how that would benefit the thread, nor how it relates to someone refusing to acknowledge problems (while not providing good reason to believe so).

xanarot · Jun 12, 2009, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

So, to keep this short, after playing Guild Wars for 3 years and WoW for about 7 months, I am definitally buying Guild Wars 2. As much as I used to hate some of the things the Devs were doing to the game, and after viewing the gametype from another perspective, this game is actually a freakin' gem. Can't wait for Guild Wars 2 to come out.

Anyone else feel the same way?

I cant agree more. The kind of 'freedom' WoW offers makes it impossible to balance the game. Just take a look at the classes.
WoW: 10 or so.
GW: 90 or so due to prim/sec mixes.

You'd think that with a few million dollars a month on subscription it wouldnt be hard to hire enough people to do numbercrunching and balance things out with 9x less possibilities to keep in mind.

Yet, at the end of the day, the 5-10 or so people on GW-live team manage to do a better job then the entire WoW team while having to take much more aspects into account.

I really, really hope GW2 remains true to GW1 and steers as far away as possible from WoW. At least as far as gear is concerned anyway, because thats WoW's pandora's box from which they still havent been able to recover... ever...
On both TBC and WotLK they even announced to redesign the entire gear part so they wouldnt have issues again, because its the core issue on both pvp and pve balance... both times they failed... anybody see the irony in that?

Cacheelma · Jun 12, 2009, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by xanarot

I cant agree more. The kind of 'freedom' WoW offers makes it impossible to balance the game. Just take a look at the classes.
WoW: 10 or so.
GW: 90 or so due to prim/sec mixes.

You'd think that with a few million dollars a month on subscription it wouldnt be hard to hire enough people to do numbercrunching and balance things out with 9x less possibilities to keep in mind.

Yet, at the end of the day, the 5-10 or so people on GW-live team manage to do a better job then the entire WoW team while having to take much more aspects into account.

I really, really hope GW2 remains true to GW1 and steers as far away as possible from WoW. At least as far as gear is concerned anyway, because thats WoW's pandora's box from which they still havent been able to recover... ever...
On both TBC and WotLK they even announced to redesign the entire gear part so they wouldnt have issues again, because its the core issue on both pvp and pve balance... both times they failed... anybody see the irony in that?

Yeah... let's ignore everything else and scream your lung out about how WoW has less class combinations than GW so it is easier to balance WoW.

Who cares about race-specific differences, itemizations, number of concurrent usable skills, etc etc, right?

Mordakai · Jun 12, 2009, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Being a "fan" is totally fine until you start to overlook the problems because you love it so much. He put "GW" specific fans in there to attempt to stir some flames.

I have no problem with legitimate discussions on the merits / demerits of a certain game.

My problem is with people who just say "Guild Wars sucks" and offer no reasonable explanation....

Too me, those people are worse than "Fanboys", because at least Fanboys have a reason to like something, even with its flaws.

Guild Wars "haters", who also like seeding flamewars, are here just for attention.

To the direct point, Zinger314 could have made the argument that fixing skill imbalances is important, but instead just said "Fanboyism is ungood."

Basically, Zinger not only attacked the poster, but anyone who considers themselves a GW fan. Thus a page of thread derailment.

Zinger314 · Jun 12, 2009, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

To the direct point, Zinger314 could have made the argument that fixing skill imbalances is important, but instead just said "Fanboyism is ungood."

Basically, Zinger not only attacked the poster, but anyone who considers themselves a GW fan. Thus a page of thread derailment.

If I had made any more specific argument, you'd be stating I'm flaming instead.

There's nothing wrong with being a Guild Wars fan. There is, however, a problem with with being such a fan that one sees everything else with rose-tinted goggles. (something which I've said multiple times throughout this thread)

Mordakai · Jun 12, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

If I had made any more specific argument, you'd be stating I'm flaming instead.

Hard to prove, since you didn't.

Anyway, I'll attempt to get this thread back on track by stating that ArenaNet developers have gone on record saying there are too many skills in Guild Wars, and that releasing new professions and new skills in every new chapter bloated the system and made things too complex.

Which is just ONE of the reasons they decided to reboot with GW2.

Hopefully, ArenaNet will learn from previous mistakes and GW2 will have less, but much more useful skills. My ultimate dream is to have to make hard choices about EVERY skill I put on my bar (assuming there still is a limited skill bar in GW2).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike O'Brien

And I think that’s something we were acutely aware of developing campaigns; some of the very things that make campaigns so exciting are the things that increase their complexity over time. You don’t want to just keep doing that forever. You don’t want to be in a place where you have twenty professions and 2500 skills, or something like that.

http://www.mmognation.com/2007/08/13...d-jeff-strain/

beanerman_99 · Jun 12, 2009, 04:18 PM // 16:18

I will buy Guild Wars 2 as soon as it hits the shelf. I have played Guild Wars since the beginning and have been very pleased with everything Anet has done. I look forward to even more high quality and attention to detail that GW1 has.

I do hope that GW2 is more dynamic and changes frequently than GW1 has. Don't get me wrong, GW1 has changed dramatically since its release, I just want GW2 to change more frequently so that things don't get too stagnant. The addition of the Zaishen Bounties and Nicholas the Traveler are a storke of genus in my book. It changes all the time so that you have something different to do everytime you login, even if it is just redoing some missions. Hell, I couldn't even remember the last time I had done the Frost Gate mission so it was kinda fun going back and re-visiting it with other players in a PUG. In my book it made going with a PUG refreshing again. yeah I could do it with H/H but that would just be the same ol same old.

/on a side note I am extremely interested in Biowars Star Wars Old Republic MMO

HawkofStorms · Jun 12, 2009, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And at which point the other posters would ask why the player in question did not see it as a problem, and then that player would either provide a good opposing view why it isn't a problem, acknowledge that it *is* a problem, or state that it doesn't affect them i.e. "idc".

Okay... after that whole side discussion... this just needed to be posted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

Enjoy this break.